Winchester Model 1897

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:01 am
My Winchester 1897
http://www.milesfortis.com/church/akc12.htm

Here's an article i found online about the Model 1897

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This may be the all time classic repeating shotgun. Winchester introduced the Model 1893 that year, made some revisions on the locking, and introduced the improved gun in 1897.

The '97 Winchester continued in production until 1957, and while serials of past one million exist, numbering took up where the 1893 left off. Slightly short of a million of the '97 left Connecticut. A study of serial numbers is interesting: production slowed drastically after introduction of the non-Browning designed Model 12. A good half the production of the shotgun took place before 1920.

I will go out on a limb and break production of the gun into 3 major types: 12 gauge solid frame; 12 gauge takedown; 16 gauge takedown. I see far more of the 12 gauge takedown models than any other.

THE SHOTGUN

My battered ’97 is an amalgamation of 2 guns. The action is primarily from a 1903 gun, including the receiver. The buttstock, barrel extension and barrel have been taken from a 1907 gun. At the time the gun was built, a few internal parts from both guns were beyond hope, so spares were installed from at least 2 other guns.

The original ’07 gun was rough indeed externally, and had been used to the point the raceway guiding the bolt in the receiver was enlarged. The bolt face occasionally slipped sideways enough that the extractor hung on the ejection port. A skilled welder could build the track back up, but this old pig wasn’t worth that kind of money.

I later stumbled, literally at a salvage yard, onto another gun. It was as rough externally as the first, but mechanically much tighter. The owner was looking to move it as a parter, and had grown nervous about selling it because all would be customers talked about shooting it. He believed it needed to be parted, and I bought it as such for $35 cash. It came with a straight grip stock, very appealing visually, but regrettably oil soaked beyond usage.

The two guns were detail stripped, the pieces eyeballed, measured, and the best bits were re-assembled on the ’03 receiver. The vast majority of action parts are the ’03 gun, the barrel, receiver extension, and wood are the ’07 gun. The resulting gun has a little flex at the threads allowing the takedown, but my checkup @ Miles Fortis Gunsmithing pronounced it entirely useable. Most of the internals still displayed the lovely original bluing, and showed the superb fit and finish which nearly bankrupted Winchester in the early ‘60s. And, my, there are a lot of internal parts.

That part of the project was complete, praise be to Allah, for detailing a ’97 Winchester is not for the faint of heart.

The 1907 gun came with a barrel cut from a 30" full choke to an 18 5/8" cylinder, cut by Miles' father, and quite well indeed. This shotgun throws patterns which are quite open, but wonderfully even.

THE MECHANICALS

The ’97 is a complex machine. A massive shell carrier slipping into a cavernous cut on the bottom of the relatively small bolt accomplishes locking.

The receiver is relatively small, and is much shorter than most modern pump shotgun receivers. This is accomplished by having most of the bolt physically outside the receiver for most of the loading cycle.

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The shell carrier seen below the receiver is the locking piece in the action, and it carries the hammer, mainspring, sear and sear spring inside. It is a mammoth and complex piece of work.
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The outside hammer is a touch one comes to appreciate. You can carry it with one round chambered, the hammer on half cock and thumb that hammer back in a hurry. Of course, you can flick off the safety on a tang safety gun just as fast, but somehow that big hammer sticking up there is reassuring.

Another touch, very much of its period, is the lack of a disconnector. If the trigger is held down while the action is cycled, the chambered round will fire the moment the action closes. I’ve never found a use for this feature, but there are some who love it. It shares this feature with a number of other fine pump guns: The original Winchester Model 12, earlier Ithaca 37s, and Winchester Model 42s. I’m no engineer, but I see no way a disconnector could be fitted to the ’97 action. Because of the potential liability that represents, I predicted that this gun would never be reproduced but was taken aback upon seeing magazine advertisements for new specimens made by NORINCO & supposedly soon to be available for shipment to your favorite dealer.

PERFORMANCE

Nothin’ to cry over there, it works just fine. It feeds factory 2 ¾" non-magnum ammo perfectly, patterns well for its purpose, and retains the stereotypically terrifying cycle sound these old actions carry. Usually this is compared to freight cars hitching, and the comparison is fair enough.

I met a man once who had covered the 1968 Democratic Convention as a reporter. During the course of the riots, he somehow got from behind the police lines to in front of them. At one point the police approached, and he watched them with their slide action shotguns (likely Ithaca ‘37s). He declares the sound of pump shotgun is the most terrifying sound in the world, and that he wishes never to hear it again. The ’97 reiterates this point.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:06 pm
U.S. Winchester Model 1897 Slide Action Trench Shotgun

http://www.nramuseum.com/the-museum/the-galleries/america-ascending/case-58-world-war-i-diorama/us-winchester-model-1897-slide-action-trench-shotgun.aspx

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Dubbed the "trench broom", these slide-action shotguns were issued with buckshot cartridges. This example bears U.S. Army Ordnance proof marks. SN E690242

Oliver Fisher Winchester was born on November 30, 1810 in Boston, Massachusetts. Although raised on a farm, Winchester eventually became a carpenter, and by 1830, he was a construction supervisor in Baltimore, Maryland. While in Baltimore, he entered the dry goods business, and after several years, Winchester became a manufacturer of men's shirts in New Haven, Connecticut. This venture proved to be sufficiently profitable that he began to extend his business interests.



In 1855, Winchester became a stockholder and director of the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company, a firearms manufacturing firm that brought together the talents of Winchester with those of Horace Smith, Daniel B. Wesson, and B. Tyler Henry. Volcanic produced lever-action repeating pistols and carbines based on the patents of Smith & Wesson. These two, who would later become famous for their revolvers, had followed up on the earlier repeating rifle designs of Walter Hunt and Lewis Jennings. Smith and Wesson sold their patents and other assets to the newly-organized Volcanic Company, and after a short time, both left Volcanic and began work on the first of many revolvers to bear their names.



The Volcanic's operating mechanism was very similar to that still used today in lever-action repeaters, but the guns were plagued by problems with their self-contained cartridges. These consisted of a hollow-based, powder-filled conical bullet backed by a fulminate primer plate. In addition to problems with velocity due to the limited amount of propellant available, these rounds also had the unfortunate tendency to go off prematurely, sometimes while still in the magazine. A further complication was the Volcanic's lack of an extractor or ejection system. These were not necessary when the ammunition functioned properly, but their lack created additional problems in case of misfires. Consequently, marketing and sales efforts were hampered.



In 1857, financial problems forced Volcanic into insolvency. The company's assets were purchased by Oliver Winchester, who by this time had become Volcanic's president. Winchester reorganized the firm and resumed operations under the name of New Haven Arms Company. Unlike others in the field of firearms manufacture during this period, Winchester's talents lay not as an inventor but as a successful businessman. This success would continue with New Haven, and it extended beyond financial matters to the staffing of the new company.



Among those hired by Oliver Winchester was B. Tyler Henry, who became plant manager. Henry had a great deal of experience with repeating firearms, having worked previously for various arms makers, including Smith & Wesson. One of his tasks was to develop a metallic cartridge to replace the inferior self-contained bullets chambered by the Volcanic. Others, including Daniel Wesson, were also working on this problem, and Wesson's .22 rimfire cartridge may have influenced Henry's efforts.



By 1860, Henry had developed a .44 rimfire, and he then turned his efforts to modifying the Volcanic to load, fire, and extract his new cartridge. His subsequent patent for these improvements was assigned to the New Haven Arms Co. The firm abandoned its pistol line and concentrated its efforts on the manufacture of lever-action rifles of Henry's design which also bore his name. The coming of the Civil War brought with it a great demand for firearms. Although the Henry, with its sixteen-shot tubular magazine and impressive rate of fire was a truly revolutionary rifle, conservative elements within the U.S. Army favored the tried-and-true single-shot muzzle loading rifle-muskets as a standard infantry arm.



The government did place orders for a total of over 1,700 Henry rifles, and many of these were issued to troopers of the 1st Maine and 1st District of Columbia Cavalry regiments. Many more found their way into the ranks through private purchase. These rifles provided Union troops with a formidable advantage over their enemies. At least one awed Confederate referred to the Henry as "that damned Yankee rifle that can be loaded on Sunday and fired all week!"



In 1867, the New Haven Arms Company was re-organized and became known as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, with Oliver Winchester serving as president, treasurer, and board member. The new company also introduced a new firearm, the Winchester Model 1866. These .44 rimfire caliber brass-framed arms were available in musket, rifle, and carbine configurations. Winchester still hoped to crack the military market, but despite the Henry's success and its popularity during the Civil War, the Army remained wedded to the single-shot rifle. Nonetheless, Henry and Winchester Model 1866 "Yellow Boy" rifles found a ready market on the western frontier. The Indians referred to these arms as "many shots," and "spirit gun," which showed a measure of awe and respect for the products of the New Haven-based company.



Many warriors were able to obtain these arms for themselves, and more than twenty of them were used against George A. Custer's 7th Cavalry and their single-shot Springfield carbines at the Little Bighorn in June, 1876. Winchester repeaters also found favor with miners, homesteaders, ranchers, lawmen, and highwaymen. Winchester's success continued with the centerfire Model 1873 and 1876 lever-action repeaters, both of which were available in a range of calibers and optional features. The Model 1886 was a milestone for the company in two respects: it marked the first association between Winchester and designer John Browning, and it was also the first lever-action rifle capable of chambering big-game calibers, including the .50-110 Express cartridge.



Other Browning-designed Winchesters include the Model 1885 single-shot rifle, Model 1887 lever-action shotgun, Model 1890 slide-action rifle, Model 1893, Model 1894, and Model 1895 lever-action rifles. The Model 1894 alone accounted for over five million sales and is still in production. Winchester was able to enter the military market in later years, with sales both to foreign governments and to the U.S. Army.



During both World Wars, Winchester-manufactured rifles and shotguns served U.S. and Allied troops in various parts of the globe. In addition to contract production of the U.S. Model 1917 bolt-action and the famous M1 Garand semi-automatic rifles, Winchester also produced the Model 1897 and Model 12 slide-action shotguns, as well as the M1 Carbine. In the civilian market, the bolt-action Model 70 rifle is still popular with big game hunters, and Winchester lever-action rifles continue to meet with sales success.



Under his leadership Oliver Winchester saw his company rise from near-bankruptcy to become one of the most successful firearms manufacturing firms in the world. He was a gifted businessman who was able to foresee opportunities and to make the most of them, and a skilled judge of people and their abilities, as evidenced both by the success of his company and by his association with men such as Horace Smith, Daniel B. Wesson, B. Tyler Henry, and John Browning. Declining health forced him to take a less active role in the affairs of his firm, but the company's continued success was all but assured by his vision and leadership.



Oliver Winchester died in December, 1880 at the age of 70, but both his name and his company survive. The Winchester Repeating Arms Company was acquired by Olin Corporation, which created U.S. Repeating Arms as the manufacturer of Winchester rifles and shotguns. In addition, Winchester arms were produced by Miroku of Japan. In 1992, U.S. Repeating Arms was purchased by Giat of France.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:22 am
as late as '04 I was still using a (IIRC) 1923 takedown '97 hunting deer and the full length barrel held the most beautiful pattern with smaller buckshot i've ever seen......my area is densely wooded and short shots are normal ........it never failed to do the job using just one round of ammo.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:39 am
Purchased my 1940 YOM Winchester 97 this year for $800.00. I really like the looks and handling of this model. There is a story behind my fondness for the 97.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:42 pm
I have a 1903 model '97 in 16 ga. takedown. It is not in good shape. No noticeable bluing left on the exterior of the gun. The forearm is cracked, the stock is not cracked but has seen a lot of field use. This shotgun was my maternal grandfathers bird hunting gun, quail, pheasant, ducks and doves. It has the 2 9/16" chamber. It mainly stays in the gun safe and I have never shot it. Would not probably ever sell it but do remember watching my gf clean ducks after a day of hunting.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:44 pm
Mach, thanks for bumping this thread. I was with the 1st Anti-Tank Co, 1st MARDIV in Korea. We had 4 take-down 97s. Two were stock 30", 2 were trench sweepers. Sweeping a trench, bunker or room side to side using the slam-fire cycle was annihilating. Not much remaining following an eight-round sweep. Plus, being a pump, the 97 could be combat loaded as long as ammo is available.

The 30" barrel will reach out and touch water fowl from afar.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:27 pm
Good stories gentlemen...thanks for sharing.

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