Pre-'64 Model 94, Hard to Cycle

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.410
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:55 pm
I have a '53 Model 94 in 30-30 that is pretty hard to cycle the lever action, in comparison to other Model 94's that I'm familiar with. At the same token, the hammer is similar to the action, in tension, also in comparisons to other Model 94's and other rifles I have. It's almost like someone once installed a "Super Spring" in it, lol.

The other info on this rifle that I can relay is that it seems like it was pretty much a closet gun. It may have possibly only been used a few times since new.

Looking to get it to cycle normally. I recently almost bought a '49 Model 94 and that one sure cycled a lot easier than my '53 does.

Any info on what it could be and how to fix it would be appreciated.

Bill
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:07 pm
Have you tried the obvious Bill...!?

A little oil perhaps...maybe even some WD-40 penetrating oil first, to see if it frees up the action.

.410
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:31 pm
Yes, I tried some Gun Oil, soon after I bought it.

Bill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:08 pm
This is only a for discussion as I've not had a cycling problem with my '94. Had this problem with my 1940 Winchester model 97 pump shotgun. The hammer spring had too much tension restricting the rear movement of the bolt over the hammer. The shotgun has a small tension screw on the follower. Taking a half turn off solved the problem. With no visible tension screw on the '94, I don't know a procedure that will adjust hammer spring tension to see if this is the problem.

ADDENDUM:

I do recall difficult cycling way back with my 1940 30 WCF SRC. The problem was the part that the finger liver runs through. I have not located a parts break-down for this particular model. The part had spread open just enough to cause difficult cycling by dragging against the receiver walls.
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.22LR
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:53 am
Cowboy Gun Fan wrote:I have a '53 Model 94 in 30-30 that is pretty hard to cycle the lever action, in comparison to other Model 94's that I'm familiar with. At the same token, the hammer is similar to the action, in tension, also in comparisons to other Model 94's and other rifles I have. It's almost like someone once installed a "Super Spring" in it, lol.

The other info on this rifle that I can relay is that it seems like it was pretty much a closet gun. It may have possibly only been used a few times since new.

Looking to get it to cycle normally. I recently almost bought a '49 Model 94 and that one sure cycled a lot easier than my '53 does.

Any info on what it could be and how to fix it would be appreciated.

Bill

If your '53 sat in a closet for who knows how long, some corrosion may have set in. I'd spray liberal amounts of a firearm specific lube with a "rust buster" into the mechanism and let it do its stuff overnight. I'm surprised that SHOOTER13 has recommended WD-40 since many/most? gunowners consider it to be almost the worst lube that you might use. It is oft referred to as the "Gunsmith's Best Friend" since it generates more than a little bit of work for them. If you do use WD-40, be sure to completely remove it and apply a quality firearm lubricant.
You can perhaps localize your problem by cocking the trigger then operating the lever. If the action is smooth, your problem is elsewhere (probably the trigger mechanism).

You can see much (but not all) of the trigger mechanism by removing the buttstock. I'm not familiar with the mechanism on pre-64 models but I'm sure that an internet search would give you some insight. If your rifle was "tinkered with" by a previous owner, it may not have been reassembled correctly. Here's a link to a site that I found useful in doing a complete disassembly/reassembly of my post-64 (1968) Mod 94. There may be similar guides to the pre-64 94s.
http://www.castbullet.com/misc/tdown.htm

You may have to teardown and reassemble yours to resolve or at least diagnose the rifle's problem.
Good luck. Post follow ups on the issue.
Sleeper

.410
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:29 pm
Appreciate the replies. First chance I get, I'll be checking into it.

Thanks

Bill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:43 pm
I have used WD-40 on some military guns and blades as a soaker to loosen and remove years of gunk. Tooth brush the soaked crevices and place small parts in a WD-40 bath, all to soak over night. Wiping down the next day and treating with oil and wiped down a few more times. WD-40 is weapons friendly when used properly and completely removed. Left unattended over time can become the gunsmith's friend.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:17 am
redryder wrote:I have used WD-40 on some military guns and blades as a soaker to loosen and remove years of gunk. Tooth brush the soaked crevices and place small parts in a WD-40 bath, all to soak over night. Wiping down the next day and treating with oil and wiped down a few more times. WD-40 is weapons friendly when used properly and completely removed. Left unattended over time can become the gunsmith's friend.

I too, have used WD-40 to clean and/or lubricate things that many now would say was not the best idea. With much superior (RE: reduced potential to cause damage) products available for firearms, I generally avoid the use of WD-40 on my guns.
I will agree that "when used properly and completely removed", WD-40 can be useful in freeing up the action of a firearm. In my mind, the "completely removed" statement means a complete disassembly of the mechanism.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:51 am
Sleeper, you have a point about "completely removed". I used the term to generic. For the bolt and other parts that I do not dissemble, I use brake parts cleaner in aerosol to remove the WD-40 and loose gunk. Then, oil and wipe.....or whatever I need to do to remove the WD-40 residue. Difficult to type what my mind sees or exactly how I use a product. There are more weapons friendly products available then WD-40.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:47 am
If your Model 94 looks especially good with a super clean bore there's a chance that gun has never left the house. Mine has a 1956 birthdate and was tight as could be when I got it. I bet there hadn't been a box of cartridges fired through it. Of the thousands of 94's produced not all of them went hunting.

So, if it looks clean inside, I'd just start cycling the action. Over and over and over … And take it out shooting. Mine's loosening up now and I think yours will too.

.410
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:22 pm
sleeper wrote:You can perhaps localize your problem by cocking the trigger then operating the lever.


sleeper,

In the meantime I tried your simple idea that you suggested and sure enough, it still cycled hard. Not as hard, but hard enough to indicate that it needs some attention. My next step will be to take off the stock. Also appreciate the dis-assembly/assembly link.

I had previously sent away for some special Winchester Pre-'64 Screw Driver Bits. Now all I need is some time, lol.

Bill
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.410
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:26 pm
RandyC wrote:If your Model 94 looks especially good with a super clean bore there's a chance that gun has never left the house. Mine has a 1956 birthdate and was tight as could be when I got it. I bet there hadn't been a box of cartridges fired through it. Of the thousands of 94's produced not all of them went hunting.

So, if it looks clean inside, I'd just start cycling the action. Over and over and over … And take it out shooting. Mine's loosening up now and I think yours will too.


Randy,

I believe that is part of the problem as well. Once I take it apart and clean and lubricate it, I'll be giving it a good work out as you have suggested.

Thanks again y'all.

Bill
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:09 pm
If the loading gate is really tight, I think that's a dead giveaway that your gun simply hasn't been used that much in spite of it's age.

If that's the case, taking the gun apart will serve no purpose. And it will be evidence of the best problem you can have -- your gun, despite it's age, is like new.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:25 am
RandyC wrote:If the loading gate is really tight, I think that's a dead giveaway that your gun simply hasn't been used that much in spite of it's age.

If that's the case, taking the gun apart will serve no purpose. And it will be evidence of the best problem you can have -- your gun, despite it's age, is like new.


Unfortunately (for me) I have yet to encounter this "best problem you can have" on any of the used guns that I have acquired :( . While I have found that a complete disassembly and a thorough cleaning has fixed many an issue, I agree with RandyC's comment that, in this case, doing so will likely serve no useful purpose (and may result in more issues if not done properly).

If there is no indication that the gun has be "tinkered with" i.e. buggered screws, misaligned components, tool marks etc., I too, would not disassemble it. An unfired gun over 50 years old may still have the factory applied anti-rust lube coating the components. If so, it would likely be very "gummy" by now and would/could make for the 'hard to cycle" condition.

This of course brings us back to some of the original suggestions of getting a good (and gun safe) solvent into the mechanism and repeatedly working the action to loosen things up. :roll:

If it does look like Bubba has been messin' with things, I'll stand by my suggestion to completely disassemble ;) .
Sleeper

.410
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 1:55 pm
I agree with you all. I should have went into more detail, but by "taking it apart" I was just referring to removing the Stock, checking it over real good and cleaning and lubricating it the best I can get to from that end.

By the way, the Loading Gate is pretty tight and there is no markings at all on or around the Gate. Although I would really doubt it, it is possible that it has never been fired, but that said, I can safely say that it sure appears to have been used very little.

I'll keep y'all posted on it.

Thanks again for the help.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:49 pm
In contrast to the AR platform rifles and many of the other auto-loaders with high capacity magazines that many of the firearm enthusiasts of today own and shoot, lever and bolt action repeaters stand apart. In the case of the former, it would not be unusual for a person to run several hundred if not thousands of rounds thru one of these rifles in any given year. RE: the latter group, it wouldn't be unusual to only shoot it one or two times a year. Grandpa takes his trusty Mod 94 out to the hunting stand in November. By 9 or 10 o'clock he has his buck and goes home. The gun goes back into the gun safe (maybe cleaned and lubed, maybe not) where it sits until next year. Of course, there are many shooters that put a great number of rounds thru the barrel but the ones coming from estate sales or being acquired by enheritance could have very low round counts. One of these would be my Holy Grail! Sleeper

.410
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:41 pm
sleeper wrote:but the ones coming from estate sales or being acquired by enheritance could have very low round counts. One of these would be my Holy Grail!


Reminds me of another Model 94 that I almost bought. It looked absolutely flawless. It was at my LGS that I stop in at now and then. I saw it in the rack and got drawn to it right away. Picked it up, checked it over, noticed that it was a Pre-'64 due to the screw on the underside, then glanced at the Serial Number, 161. About that time the store owner, mentioned that it was a 1949. I Cycled the Lever Action and it was nice and smooth. It was there on consignment and we both agreed that it was possibly never fired. The asking price was $750......but someone already had $100 Down on it. Now I was in no position to buy another, but it didn't take me long to decide to buy it, IF, the depositor backed out. Well he didn't. In about a month or two, he had the rest paid in full and brought it home.

...maybe the next time, lol.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:18 pm
Cowboy Gun Fan wrote:
sleeper wrote:but the ones coming from estate sales or being acquired by enheritance could have very low round counts. One of these would be my Holy Grail!


Reminds me of another Model 94 that I almost bought. It looked absolutely flawless. It was at my LGS that I stop in at now and then. I saw it in the rack and got drawn to it right away. Picked it up, checked it over, noticed that it was a Pre-'64 due to the screw on the underside, then glanced at the Serial Number, 161. About that time the store owner, mentioned that it was a 1949. I Cycled the Lever Action and it was nice and smooth. It was there on consignment and we both agreed that it was possibly never fired. The asking price was $750......but someone already had $100 Down on it. Now I was in no position to buy another, but it didn't take me long to decide to buy it, IF, the depositor backed out. Well he didn't. In about a month or two, he had the rest paid in full and brought it home.

...maybe the next time, lol.


While $750 was probably a decent price for that gun, I would have considered it to be out of the range that i would have been willing to pay :( . Once these "in demand" firearms make it to the LGS, it's usually game over for me. Regardless of how the LGS came by that gun, you know darn well he didn't pay anything near $750 for it. You've got to snag these gems BEFORE they get to the LGS!!!
Sleeper

.410
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:31 pm
Well, I was going to offer $675 for it if it didn't sell, lol. I too would have loved to have a shot at it from the original owner, but without any kind of connection to these great old rifles, it would had required a whole lot of luck.

Although way out of my affordability, I would had paid a good $700 for it, it was that nice. I believe he would have taken that, as he has reduced prices for me before.

Bill
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:30 am
Cowboy Gun Fan wrote:Well, I was going to offer $675 for it if it didn't sell, lol. I too would have loved to have a shot at it from the original owner, but without any kind of connection to these great old rifles, it would had required a whole lot of luck.

Although way out of my affordability, I would had paid a good $700 for it, it was that nice. I believe he would have taken that, as he has reduced prices for me before.

Bill

Without spending an enormous amount of time seeking out estate sales, garage sales and/or small town auctions, finding firearms at rock bottom prices does IMHO require a great deal of luck. Even then you have to be the first one on the scene. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to hit all of the places that might have that elusive bargain! Anymore, I've pretty much decided to leave it up to fate. I'm sure that I've missed some (probably many) sales but I'm not loosing any sleep over it.

RE: buying from your LGS, many times it's your only option. While not always the lowest possible price,reasonable prices can be had and if you've made purchases before, the owner will be more likely to deal favorably.

Neither of the above concepts are "news flashes" to most. I do have to remind myself of them. When I read or hear about someone getting an incredible deal on a particular gun, they either worked pretty hard to find it or are pretty lucky!
Sleeper

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