Curiosity in accuracy


Copper BB
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:52 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:19 pm
Good afternoon all,

So, I'm just sort of curious what sort of accuracy y'all see coming out of various years/models of M70s. Is there any difference between pre-64, post-64, and the modern classic actions in the accuracy department?

Just to keep things orderly, I'd like people to specify what cartridge /cartridge family your rifle is chambered in (i.e. .30-06, .308, .300H&H / belted magnum, or specify other cartridges), and what load you were using. Also, range and weather conditions would be useful info.

The whole point of this thread is just to satisfy my curiosity, so I hope it helps anyone else with the same question in their mind. :mrgreen:

--TK
Winchester:
Because Winchester

"You want the shiny?
you gotta work your Hiney!" - - Jeff Williams
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:49 pm
Can't help ya there...don't own a Model 70.

.410
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:28 am
Location: San Diego Area
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:19 pm
I first read your Thread several days ago and at the time though I was far from the best person to reply. I see no responses yet so, still with the hope someone comes along soon to best me, I offer only a ‘half-vast’  reply.
The pre and post 64 genre rifles are really more than two categories since the Model 70 designation in the ‘post’ generations include the “push feed” as well as the later reintroduced controlled round feed models. It is said that for accuracy potential the push feed is superior as a type. For a lot of tech reasons, likely true.
The non-target pre 64 M 70 rifles were initiated in an era when even scopes were relatively exotic. Indeed, the very “prewar” configuration didn’t even have the convenience of a tapped (atop) scope friendly receiver bridge. Still original scoped models of the day used such as Stith mounts with there ‘adapted’ system of mounting. The point that the original Model 70 design primarily contemplated metallic sights with receiver sights as the more precise target configuration. These rifles were never, pre or postwar intended to achieve ‘minute of angle’ or like accuracy potential we nowadays often consider important. While the postwar configuration did quickly tap that receiver bridge top, still accuracy was considered in “reasonable” terms. Such based on the abilities of the average sportsman shooter. Not experts with high powered scopes. Such as the heavier barreled models were something of a compromise in that respect. Yet only the true “target” configurations were really concerned with ‘sub minute’ accuracy potential. As such concerns manifest, beyond simply heavier barrels and other small accommodations, production costs tended to increase geometrically. The point here is that Winchester’s approach was one of reason and based on optics and the likelihood of employment of such within the consumer base they attracted.
The post 64 genre initially suffered in so many aspects (real and blacklisting) that those 64 to 67 products are difficult to evaluate. Many across the model range never got to the nuance of accuracy discussions due to larger issues and a righteous prejudice. Later Model 70 rifles, much less so although Winchester had pulled in their horns and were much more just concentrating on ‘core business’ rather than a proliferation of sub-models or concerns about sub minute accuracy. By the time of USRA, the situation was changing, but the sub minute still wasn’t a goal. That said, neither was it for almost any ordinary volume rifle manufacturers. Just not a consumer demand.
Now to the net, net. It is my opinion (and only such) that the current genre of FN produced Winchester rifles likely has the greatest accuracy “potential” of any past comparable models. Barrel making technology having the primary influence and that particularly where tolerances are more highly controllable in ordinary manufacturing contexts.
And now, largely evading any specific answer to your question, but to question the question with a commentary.
Seeking anecdotal evidence in constructing a picture of accuracy in the context you present seems like asking folks to send in information concerning their gas mileage experience listing their brand and model vehicles. The simple point, too many variables to construe any decisive results. The same car or the same rifle in different hands, under different conditions producing differing results; likely some radically different.
I do understand your questions and an interesting subjects. Just that other than personal stories, I think it highly unlikely you’ll get much of an ‘accurate’ (pun intended) picture. Praising or badmouthing a rifle’s accuracy involves too many objective questions not to mention subjective ones such as personal prejudices.
There’s just a wide world of responses available and unless followed by significant qualifying interrogation, likely only colorful results at best.
I do applaud your questions. Just that unlikely any answers will provide empirical results.
Perhaps a question as to personal experiences with the current Winchester Stealth models in various chamberings might yield better potential results. Yet less than benchrest work, likely just ‘seat of pants’ impressions.
The irony for me is that sub MOA work was never a personal concern. I was never stellar shot! So while I can hypothetically ‘talk the talk’, just to admit frankly that I can’t ‘walk the walk’!

My take

.22LR
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:05 am
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:25 am
I have a pre-war 30/06 and a current production M70 Fwt. After a lot of shooting with multiple bullet and powder combinations the pre-war is capable of reliable 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. The Fwt seems to reliably group at a MOA, slightly less or more depending on loads. Whether these results can be applied to M70s across the board is questionable as two rifles do not make a reliable statistical sample. While MOA is nice it is not a critical requirement for big game hunting, or even larger varmints like coyotes. Obviously for the smaller varmints accuracy is an issue, or if you do all your shooting from the bench.

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