Hello All.

I have inherited a 1937 Winchester Model 70 labeled as (.30GOV'T'.06).

I have had it appraised and was told by 2 gun shops that it appears to be in 100% original condition. With that being said, I do not wish to drill any holes for mounting a scope for the occasional deer hunt.

I have attached some pics, can anybody help me out if they know of a mount that is "bolt-on" using the existing screws and doesn't require any tapping. This would help keep the gun's value and original condition.

Below pic, there are 2 screws on top above serial # which look like they could be used for a mount.


2 screws on the left side of receiver look like they could be used for a mount.


I did find this info on the net:
Pre-World War II rifles (up to early 1942) have serial numbers from 1 to about 60,500. The bolt
shrouds on these will be flat on top rather than round, and the bolt handle will have a 90-degree
step at the base. Pre-war rifles will all have charger clip slots in the front of the rear receiver bridge.
Later (transition) guns had these only by special order or on the target rifles in .30-06 only. These
early guns will not be drilled and tapped on top of the receiver for scope mounts. However, they will
have two drilled and tapped holes on the left side of the receiver for peep sights; early scope mounts
also utilized these holes for scope mounting. I found these photos I attached on another forum, but no brand was listed.

Welcome to the Winchester Owners Forum !!

Can't help with your question...but I'm sure some member here will offer an answer...so, standby !!

Thanks. This was my wife's grandfather's deer rifle. I realize the collector's value it holds, but I think he'd want it back in the field scoping some deer and not be a safe beauty. So that's my mission, get it back in the field but keep the originality of the piece. It hasn't seen light in 35 years. I suppose I could try to hunt with the iron sights, but if I can find the screw on mount pictured above without much fuss, that's the way I want to go.

What state are you located in...curious as to what distance your shots may be made.

Here in rolling hills of Pennsylvania, my longest white tail deer shot was only 65 yards, and I took it with an open sight Winchester Model 1894 chambered in .30WCF.

A fine looking family firearm treasure.

Why not stay factory and get to know those early iron sights?

First, Congrats on a pristine looking Winchester prewar Model 70! Can't see the whole rifle, but unless somebody put a pad on it or sawed the barrel, I'd add my voice to the originality assessment. Just for interest sake, it would be nice to see some more pix, such as butt areas and bottom metal as well as whole barrel.
If that was my rifle, I wouldn't even considering putting a scope on it, such that there will likely be marks left. But if you're really going to field that gun, I suppose it makes little difference! Just be aware that despite the common chambering, you have a very desirable & collectible Model 70. A few scratches may separate you from big bucks in value reduction! Of course, that's based on what I've seen and extrapolating such condition to the remainder of the rifle.
The mount you're referring to is the brand called "Stith", made from the That appears to be what you have in the photos. They 'look 'right', but I'm unsure. It's really important if you've shopping for a set to be sure they're complete and compatible. Unscrupulous sellers with incompatible mix n match odds & ends too common! An important consideration with any mounts is the scope ring diameter. I believe Stiths were made in 3/4, 7/8 & 1 Inch. The other question is of an adjustable mount Stith or fixed mount with all adjustments in the scope. A nice Lyman Alaskan 7/8" would be a great period correct scope with the right Stith mounts! But also depends on what your hunting and what you need in a scope. Nowadays expect to pay perhaps $150 or more depending on the mount. The Stith company went out of business in the late forties. Nowadays all their mounts are quite valuable!
Again great rifle!!!

So... Good luck & if you have the time/inclination, send additional rifle pix for... 'the rest of the story'!

My take

Hi ya iskra,

Thanks for the major informative short narrative toward the rifle. I learn a lot about firearms from owners like you and others with the knowledge to share.

I agree with iskra, put it away and find something else to hunt with the rifle appears to be in exceptional condition for one that hasn't been in someone collection for a long time. There is another type of mount I have a prewar carbine with one. It consists of a tube that mounts to the rear sight dovetail and slides over a 3/4 in Alaskan front to hold it, the rear is similar to the picture.

Well said...

flyinglyon, I just noted the recent post and returned have a look. First, I do reiterate, as oger agrees, that perhaps best not to field that Model 70 unless done occasionally and carefully.
I am also familiar with the scope mount as oger is describing in that post. It's just one of the variety of the Stiths. The forward mount tube does literally slide over the front of the scope tube which, of course requires a low power straight tube objective scope end. That forward scope mount end then has a base which secures it to the barrel rear sight dovetail slot.
I also need to admit an error in my prior assessment of your gun. In again reviewing your photos, I've noted an altered assembly. The cocking piece and safety lever are not in original prewar configuration. Such was a common modification made to adapt a scope mounting in the lowest possible attitude above the action. The original “flag style” (as it was termed) safety lever could interfere with a low scope mounting and vice versa. Someone has fitted a later (pre 64) style safety lever to an altered cocking piece. The net effect is of “non-originality.” Value is a particular reason for restoring the rifle to original configuration for a net value gain. This should not require extensive work. Parts may be a bit of a problem bur are likely available. Determine your exact need and check with some of the big parts suppliers.
I would restore the rifle and not install any scope. Acquire another rifle for hunting and keep that nice Model 70 pristine! As it sits, it’s value is diminished perhaps $500-600. The correct parts should likely be a drop-in substitution as an assembly and perhaps a cost of $150-200 or so. Fielding it and submitting it to seasonal wear and tear could also likely diminish the value by 30-40% of pristine value. Your choice(s) of course, but one side is an investment the other is fun!
My take.

A gaggle of learned detail in your narrative iskra. Thanks for your effort and time toward this post.

Many people are not going to agree with the following comments that you are about to read, that being said... I'd also like to add that there have been some very good points made here in the earlier posts with regards to collectability, diminished values from modifications etc.
To start with, I believe the "current condition" evaluation of your rifle should be quite a bit higher than $500-$600. According to my 2014 edition of Guns and Values, ... any "useable pre-64 model 70 action" is worth $500.
I also have a similar rifle to yours, mine being a 1942 model 70 in .300 H&H, it also had the safety modified at some point in its life and (sadly) came with 2 extra holes already drilled and tapped in the rear bridge for scope mounting. Although it is not a pristine collector piece, I have still been offered double the amount of your current condition $500-$600 assessed value.
Yes, I could fill the extra holes and replace the parts to restore it to original... but why ? I will never own a finer hunting rifle, so I choose to carefully use it for its intended purpose and enjoy it. I just cant imagine leaving one of my best hunting rifles at home because its rare or desirable to someone else. I also hunt on occasion with my 1876 in .45-75 caliber , it originally belonged to my great great grandfather. Mfg in 1881 and still going strong today, I will never own a "Safe Queen". I take care of my rifles, and enjoy them all and use them as they were intended. No matter what the perceived value or the condition of any rifle that I own might be, its worth more to me to have it by my side while hunting than to have it locked away somewhere waiting for someone else to enjoy when its sold or passed down. This is especially true for me when the rifle has been a family hunting rifle. I hope you find a suitable scope mount at a reasonable price that will allow you to carry it, hunt or shoot it when you like, and be proud to tell its story, and most of all.. enjoy it.

skinner-t wrote:Many people are not going to agree with the following comments that you are about to read, that being said... I'd also like to add that there have been some very good points made here in the earlier posts with regards to collectability, diminished values from modifications etc.
To start with, I believe the "current condition" evaluation of your rifle should be quite a bit higher than $500-$600. According to my 2014 edition of Guns and Values, ... any "useable pre-64 model 70 action" is worth $500.
I also have a similar rifle to yours, mine being a 1942 model 70 in .300 H&H, it also had the safety modified at some point in its life and (sadly) came with 2 extra holes already drilled and tapped in the rear bridge for scope mounting. Although it is not a pristine collector piece, I have still been offered double the amount of your current condition $500-$600 assessed value.
Yes, I could fill the extra holes and replace the parts to restore it to original... but why ? I will never own a finer hunting rifle, so I choose to carefully use it for its intended purpose and enjoy it. I just cant imagine leaving one of my best hunting rifles at home because its rare or desirable to someone else. I also hunt on occasion with my 1876 in .45-75 caliber , it originally belonged to my great great grandfather. Mfg in 1881 and still going strong today, I will never own a "Safe Queen". I take care of my rifles, and enjoy them all and use them as they were intended. No matter what the perceived value or the condition of any rifle that I own might be, its worth more to me to have it by my side while hunting than to have it locked away somewhere waiting for someone else to enjoy when its sold or passed down. This is especially true for me when the rifle has been a family hunting rifle. I hope you find a suitable scope mount at a reasonable price that will allow you to carry it, hunt or shoot it when you like, and be proud to tell its story, and most of all.. enjoy it.

Someone else finally "gets it".

I have 2 other modern deer rifles in the safe that I use.
I WILL be carrying this for a deer harvest, that is what my wife's grandfather would want.
I suppose a session at the range is in order to see what my grouping would be at 100 yards with the iron sights. I may shock myself and feel confident after shooting a group.

I was offered $950 by a local gun shop without much of a fuss. I figure he either wanted it personally really bad, or obviously would re-sell making a profit. I have watched enough pawn stars to know how it works. Maybe I could get on a pawn star episode? LOL. I don't need the money, so it will stay in the family. Unfortunate I do not have any children to pass it on to though. So I'll be selling it at some point in my life, probably when I'm too old to hunt. In the meantime, I will be waiting on that perfectly sunny day deer hunt.

Valid points from skinner and flyinglion. However, both are commenting as hunters and have earned the right to do as they please with their firearms. I am not a hunter, therefore I have firearms for target shooting and firearms for saving as is. If I were a hunter, would have firearms for hunting and others saved as is.

Even if you use a mount that utilizes the receiver sight holes you will probable have to remove wood from the stock for the base to fit. My prewar had a mount(think it was Tilden) like that when I got it with a Lyman Alaskan on it (gave it to my brother-in-law). I am not a collector so (sacrilege I know) had the rear bridge D & T'd and installed a Redfield 2 piece base. Also replaced the original safety with the newer type to clear the scope (had a friend whose original safety broke and gave it to him). Mine was in no way near as nice as yours and have to agree with other posters, keep it as it is.

First Gentlemen... Just to set the matter straight, I never said the subject rifle was worth five to six hundred dollars. Nor did I mention any opinion of value per se. I only referenced an opinion of diminished value from a collector perspective. The rifle, nice as it is, achieves “highest and best value” as a collector item. It could be used as a boat oar, but that doesn’t change the maximum valuation characterization.
I’m not in a position to discuss applications beyond the comment that as previously noted, fielding the rifle to any extent will likely diminish value. Well, a lot of words! But rather irrelevant to reference values in a collector context IF in fact the rifle will be subject to hunting stresses.

As far as any offers on the rifle, such is no better than the expertise (and integrity of course) of the offering party. Many buyers probably wouldn’t necessarily notice the apparently well done modification.
In a Machiavellian sense, for every pristine collectible gun that’s ‘lost’ to the market, the market base shrinks and the finite number of existing guns within that base incrementally push values higher!

I’ve very much enjoyed seeing this fine, early Model 70 and the discussions here! Various poles presented and all to be respected!

And now flyinglyon, I can’t resist a 'parting shot'. If you lament having no offspring to whom to pass your guns, my situation a greater paradox! Sons from mid-forties to preteen. None with a whit of interest in guns AND ‘dad’ just struggling to keep abreast at some level of their constant ‘computer speak’!
Good luck with that beautiful Winchester.

All here…
Just my take

Thanks Iskra, having re-read your earlier post I'd have to agree with your comment you made from a collectors point of view. The modifications made to the safety could see collector value diminished by $500-600 from a pristine example. My mistake.

skinner-t wrote:Thanks Iskra, having re-read your earlier post I'd have to agree with your comment you made from a collectors point of view. The modifications made to the safety could see collector value diminished by $500-600 from a pristine example. My mistake.

Absolutely no problem skinner-t. Perhaps you, like me, often quickly surveying materials with the increased hazard of misinterpretation!
Also another positive note flyinglion. Assuming it's functioning properly, that striker assembly you now have in your gun should be worth perhaps a couple of hundred dollars to the right party... or perhaps even more valuable to you in the context of mounting a scope. Often that's all about 'clearances'. That 'low scope' safety perhaps a valuable asset. And best of all 'non-original worlds, a 'fixable' alteration! In any case, a truly nice rifle of which to be justifiably proud!
My take